biscuit or cake?
Posted by derrick on August 31, 2006
Live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard
Oh Lord, why don’t we ? - macca
You can start lighting the fire under the stake now!! Now, in my more politically correct moments I’m happy to say how rudders can be perfect for some people and for some paddling styles. But man does that hurt to say it. I know, I say it all the time when asked. But when I do, I develop a twitch! Between you and I, (knowing no one reads this drivel anyway) I’d never, ever, ever buy a kayak with one. And this is not one of those “I’ll never were a tuiliq” kind of statements. I really mean it.
Ok, so we all know that a rudder can be great for turning your boat and conversely-wise, keeping it on a line. Ok. . . Yep, I’ll give it that. But here’s the thing. I can do that with my paddle and my skeg with little effort as well. Well, most of the time anyway!! LOL! So I think we’d have to call boat control a tie, wouldn’t you? Other than of course if your rudder breaks and you end up going left for eternity or as least long enough to broadside to the big wave you were just on. . I’m betting somewhere out the Bermuda Triangle somewhere there are 23 lost kayakers all paddling clockwise just out of eyeshot of each other and all wishing for a bit of cable and a nut.
The loose peddles on rudders can be a bit of an issue as well. When rolling you have to keep balanced pressure on both peddles. If you take your foot off the offside peddle your bracing peddle will drop right out from under you. With a bit of time you can get used to that. However if you do any rolling with your feet off the peddles, they are not always easy to locate again when you want to put your feet back on them. One good thing these days is that some creative people have come up with some nice sturdy “gas peddle” type designs that will stay fixed.
The other thing I worry about with rudders is having this black Ron Popeil “Twist & Chop” on the end of a 17 foot axe handle. In choppy (get it, choppy!??) conditions they just scare me. Especially the ones where the owner of the boat has no way to lock it down and it just sits back there banging like a mini guillotine waiting for an errant finger. Yikes! I do hate rudders. I can think back to when we used to teach people during a T-rescue to go to the back of their boat to help with the draining of the cockpit. Even in calm water you’d be a little concerned, but in waves you’d get flashing images of screaming Full Moon Productions horror victims with blood running down their foreheads. Luckily my first ACA IT was already against that move for the most part. I never got in the habit of putting a victim 17 feet away from me under a bouncing stern. Just too many risks, with or without a rudder. (In my crazy opinion of course).
Then there’s the bit in rescues where you tell the victim to mind the rudder, when they are getting on the rear deck to do a reentry, something you needn’t bother with with a skeg.
Alright I know what you’re going to say, “skegs aren’t all that either”. Yeah, your right. They can get jammed up. Older wire designs can kink. True. When I ordered my Acuta I still had an old style rope skeg installed. And in fact, I’ll do you one further. . . How about, you don’t need either!?? Early on I had a couple coaches who did not buy into the “Everyone is Beautiful” view of the kayaking world. They would say, “Don’t get used a rudder OR a skeg”. ” Derrick, learn to control your boat!”, they’d say. I got beat over the head with that one! So I slipped into that old school way of thinking. I’ve never used my skeg in my Explorer. More a testament to Nigel Dennis than to my sketchy paddling skills I’m sure. But I don’t rely on a skeg these days either. But then with experience comes provisos. Some high rocker boats are just a bear to keep on a line without a skeg. My Acuta is a good example of that. Without a bit of skeg in the water, I’m swerving all over the place and that’s not all that fun for sure. On those few occasions where I’m actually going somewhere in the Acuta I do put down just a touch of skeg. But for the most part I’m not going over a couple miles without my Explorer.
Well, I feel much better now. Ranting and having ranted. Having taken that skeleton out of my closet for a good flogging, I will sleep much easier now. Feel free to dispute everything I said here today. That’s cool. Whenever I feel opinionated I always assume that means I’m missing something. Discussion is how we learn. So grab a chair and warm cup. What will it be, biscuit or cake?
Just great, you couldn’t have waited with this damn article until I sold my Shadow. Nice going
Derrick - has your dogma run over your karma??? :-)) ‘Horses for courses’ springs to mind… Having come from a racing background (K1, K2, K4), rudders have their place - and don’t leave home without one in the Rapier 20 (not unless you really want to do a series of flat spins!) In an ‘ordinary’ sea boat? - well, they can be a bit iffy in the big stuff and perhaps a tad tricky in rescues, but OK, we live with it… Skegs? - there’s nothing quite so irritating as a stone stuffed up your skeg box!! And I have had the ’stuck down’ problem as well - wet exit before beach to solve that one!! But - when you need a bit of skeg, you need a bit of skeg! So, a bit like life really, love ‘em all!
Rowland
Oh, and I forgot to say - cake please!!
Biscuit, I’m still trying to lose that last 5 pounds (as in weight) without giving up my beer (5 more will bring it to 30 off since the 1st of the year, without giving up beer! perhaps I could make a lot of money off the book version).
One of my early boats had a rudder, and I suspect it needed it, but my skills were quite rough then. One day going out through the 2.5 to 3 foot surf, with an air temperature of 20 degrees F, the cable broke while bracing–not a good day for that to happen, it became a short day. Granted, they have their place, but those aren’t my paddling styles. And if I do get a stone wedged in my skeg, someone I’m paddling with has always been able to give a tug on the cord attached to the skeg and unjam it. Now when I’m paddling alone, that’s a problem that I’ve not worked out yet without (a) going to shore or (b) doing without the skeg — which I rarely use anyway, except on longer touring days.
I’ve also witnessed a rudder puncturing another’s hull–not good!
Yeah, having a little dogma day! LOL!
But I’m fickle. . . Who knows, maybe tomarrow I’ll head right out and buy something with a rudder. Or maybe I’ll retrofit my explorer.
Yeah those “K-boats” need rudders. No doubt. I was certainly speaking to “sea boats”. And I did say too that skegs could be a problem as well. :0
But good points all and actually I was hoping to get some good arguments for rudders on sea boats out of the post.
I’m sure there has to be some. . . somewhere. . . out there. . . 
Arguments for… goes round corners easily and balancing across the wind in my Khats S without a rudder is a nightmare.
Disadvantages.. well, I slashed my hand getting a stern presentation in one rescue session (I was the rescuee), and I’ve been nearly scalped when a Nordkapp with a big aluminium blade tumbled off the top of a pyramid over me at North Stack some years ago, but I still can’t find the oomph to be strongly anti-rudder. If it works for the paddler…
Perhaps resigning is good for the karma!
How about cake AND biscuits?
:-))
When we first started to sell NDK boats in Iceland it was at a time everyone used rudders. The manager of the shop was quite hesitant to order NDK without rudders so I was given the job of ordering 2 Explorers with skegs and 2 with rudders, needless to say that was hard.
I got a detailed letter from NDK on the virtues of skegs and how their designs were not meant for a rudder. And in the end I could convince the manager that we didnt need rudders to sell the NDK.
In those days even Nordkapps were fitted with a rudder and in the process hacked down, the pointy end just sawed off.
So I have to agree with you.
cheers
Sno
Hey Sno,
Nice blog by the way.
Yeah it’s a fun discussion. One of those infernal battles in kayaking for sure. LOL! I think an NDK would burst into flames if you put a rudder on it. :))
Rowland, did you find a new abode on your trip?
hmmm, tomarrows post?. . . “ACA or BCU which is better?” That should keep the peace. LOL!!
oh yeah, You can’t have both, but we can put frosting on your biscuit. . I’ve heard that increase your popularity at parties. . .
I’ve just eaten THREE chocolate biscuits!!!
Whilst I was walking home, I realised I probably didn’t express myself very well - what I was trying to get across was that with a racing background, rudders have always ‘been there’ - although not on every boat that I paddle (if you follow that!). So I don’t feel strongly in either direction. I’ve found that some of the most vehement anti-rudder voices come from those who have never paddled a boat with one on - which is a bit odd (if undeniably human).
As to NDK boats self-destructing… one of the reasons I got a Rapier was that a certain Holyhead based company wouldn’t make a lightweight Greenlander with a rudder for me. It didn’t ‘fit the company image’. (I’ll leave that comment there…)
(I wanted a fitness and racing sea boat. Into the breach steps….)
Yup, looked at a couple of houses - serious buying in Nov/Dec (gulp!)
Anyway, I’m now off for a paddle (in a sea boat with a rudder on!!!!)
PS - BCU v ACA - do you really have that much body armour? - I don’t think I do!!!
I’m a skeg man myself (mostly from the aesthetics perspective) although if I was racing, I would want a rudder. A rudder allows you to steer and maintain your course without having to use a sweep stroke. Taking a turn around a marker buoy during a race in a 21 foot long/15 inch wide surfski without a rudder would be a huge pain.
In most boats I don’t used a skeg or a rudder but some boats really do need a skeg (Anas Acuta, Pintail, and Skerray come to mind) and paddling long distance in flat water without one would be a big pain.
On a side note, when are you putting up my greenlandic cartwheels? I promised myself that if I go back to Qajaq TC next year, the playboat is coming with me!
Hey Alex,
Yeah, I was looking at that video a couple days back, just been swamped. I’ll do my best to get it posted over the weekend. Yeah take your playboat next year for sure. I’m still working on that double pump myself. Still landing on my face more often than not.
now how would you mount a rudder on a Greenlander?? Wack of the tail?
Derrick,
I clicked on your post just before I was to call Body Boat Blade to get a replacement skeg wire for Gabby’s Romany. She landed first, retracted second, bad, bad. I just replaced mine 2 weeks ago. While on a 2 week paddle my buddy borrowed my Feathercraft K1 and when we landed in surf the waves knocked the tar out of the rudder and we had to beach fix it. On another day, same trip, he stored his spare paddle shafts too close to the rudder and the surf caused the rudder to chop the ferule apart, rendering his spare paddle useless. I have taken pebbles out of untold skeg boxes, including Rowland’s. (A way to do this if you are by yourself is to tie a length of fishing line to the hole in the skeg and secure it on deck so it does not drag in the water.) If you ever have paddled a Easy Rider kayak or done a rescue on one with the Meat Cleaver From Hell Rudder you will recall the shower scene from the film Psycho. My point in all this is that whatever your prefered contraption they both suck. Prepare for its inevitable failure and take steps to minimize its threat to people or property. At times my Nordkapp HM appears to be the smartest choice in my fleet.
Cheers,
Rob G
PS: Now I’ll call BBB. Oh, thanks for posting your strong opinions, it makes good reading.
I began kayaking with a rudder always hated the thing, mostly because of having to adjust it everytime I paddled. After demo sessions where I had to adjust rudders for every ride, felt like 1000 times! I loath them. But I do not race and I know they have their place there.
I have a rope skeg on my Explorer and its a hassle, but it works ok, dont need it much anyway - The Romany on the other hand needs the skeg more. After seeing Shawna, Leon and Chris paddle around Iceland without rudders or skegs it kind of put things in perspective- if worldclass kayakers do not need either on a expedition then surely its not of great importance on my daytrips.
Speaking of both some kayak companies offer this option, Kajak Sport used too, dont know if they still do.
cheers
Sno
argument for; it gives the rest of us something to laugh at.
I have never seen a nordkapp with a rudder and mine is the first one I saw with a skeg(6yrs old,slider and internal cable), before buying it I paddled a nordkapp HM and the ordinary hull and the HM takes the whole of the Clyde to turn round in, nice boat though, especially liked the duck-tape holding it together. I try to paddle without the skeg except in dire need, like two weeks ago and I had to paddle backwards to keep slow enough to stay alongside a nervous paddler. I would be anxious if I couldn’t paddle without its help and it broke/stuck. my acuta, being an original old floater(no duck-tape yet), has never had one and it doesnt take off like the nordkapp(you know that following wind and tide thing)so I wouldn’t think of fitting one. however I do get into something like the Romany and spend my entire time going around in circles giggling like a girl.
Derrick thanks for saying about the kinetic being something to get used to, I am still searching for the english for ‘weeechs away’ , which is what is does, possibly a cross between suprise/woosh/sudden?
and you are allowed to have opinions which may change at any time. I like the nordkapp, the acuta and the greenlander, everything else is rubbish. cake please thanks.
My first sea kayak was a fourth-hand Seda Glider with a rudder. Being as I was at the bottom end of the weight range, I was all freeboard & in winds over 15 kts tended to get pushed around (lea-cocking as opposed the the commoner weathercocking). The rudder was very helpful in such conditions, or racing when it’s all about forward power, but I didn’t use it much beyond that.
Could I count on it?
Yes, absolutely. I could always count on it to hang up & jam in some way or another right when conditions were such that it would be the MOST useful (like towing someone in a Prijon Seayak in a beam wind - ugh).
I did like that boat for long-distance stuff though. Maybe a jam-prone rudder is better than one that works perfectly & lulls you into a false sense of security…
Anyways - I do still have a boat with a rudder - it’s a surfski, though & that’s a different kind of animal entirely.
Oh. Cake. Preferably of the molten chocolate variety although I wouldn’t turn down a good strawberry shortcake either.
oh, and all you people with garages and basements and what-have-you should come by Frogma - it will make you appreciate your garages & basements…
Yeah, Bonnie I’ve been watching that. I don’t envy you one bit. Well, maybe a little. Isn’t there someone you can kill to make it all better?? At least in the end it WILL all work out and you do have the big water right there. . . I’d like to find a place where poor people like me could have a house with a garage right on the ocean.
If I did you could certainly keep you kayak there.
Claire, I want to use a word like ‘weeechs’ in a sentance someday if I can ever figure out what weeechs means exactly. LOL!!
Here ya go:
http://www.easyriderkayaks.com/gallery/eskimo15p11.htm
This aquatic machete ought to go in the next slasher movie, Kayaker from Hell. The plot involves an evil ACA coach who lures his victims deep into the marine wilderness and disposes of them one by one by making them do stern assist reentries in bumpy water. There will be no hero in the film, because frankly, even he cannot manage to live through a rescue session with that. Everyone dies except the evil ACA coach which sets us up for installments 2-5. In the sequel, he’ll switch to a sealine rudder on his rental fleet, which never leaves me without the impression that I don’t want to be anywhere near that thing in a rock garden. That rudder is inherently more “to the point” than anything Torquemada came up with. Even the Easy Rider Cleaver From Hell look has its psycho butcher-esque charm to it.
Bought my first kayak, a Perception Carolina, without a rudder, because I read that they were expensive, complicated, and prone to failure. Paddled it two years, and didn’t know what I was missing. Bought a used Carolina, that had a rudder, never paddled it, but my brother did. He doesn’t paddle much, and loved the rudder. Sold the one with the rudder, but couldn’t sell the one without, so I bought a $50 kit and installed it myself, then sold the kayak with a new rudder for $100 more than I was asking originally, poor saps. Bought a Current Designs Extreme with rudder. Hated the boat, the rudder, the mushy pedals, the twitchy stability. The rudder worked more like a brake than anything. The waterline was too long, and rudder would swing too far to the side, so it still wouldn’t turn. Bought a CD Gulfstream with a skeg. Love this boat. Mostly when I am paddling forward, I don’t use the skeg. Only when I am poking around in the lily pads, trying to get close to wildlife, I will drop the skeg so that the boat will drift straight, while I use the camera. Swinging the paddle spooks the birds, so I have been known to use half of the paddle and leave the blade in the water on one side, rotating it to push it forward, for the next stroke.
Chocolate cake please.
I like the idea of the stake. I’d even give you your choice of firewood.
I have a QCC boat which needs either a skeg or a rudder to keep it going straight. When Maligiaq used one to race across the St Lawrence a few years ago, we glassed on a skeg, it was that bad. The rudder I have on mine is one of the Smart-Tracs so the pedals offer good support when needed. I agree with you that ideally a kayak ought not to need either rudder or skeg. There’s just nota lot of ‘ideal’ boats out there.
Hey Michael,
I think the QCC is one of those few unique kayaks that’s allowed a rudder.
The Smart-Trac is another good improvement as well. Which QCC do you have?
Oh, Champhor Wood Please.
Should have said Greenlander Pro (duh!); and yes, by losing the kick-up.
RobG comes with a high recommendation for his ’stone getting out’ capabilities - ‘a must for every paddle’!!
PS - have we beaten the ‘lady in red’ thread yet? Bet you could get to a hundred with BCU/ACU…!
PPS What on earth is Champhor Wood?
Hey,
Greenlander, greenlander pro. . sure look weird without the tail. I think we might be selling our greenlander. Mary ’s had it for a year and has decided it’s too much boat.
Want’s a Romany now.
That fishing line idea of Rob’s sounds interesting.
Not sure I want to wade into the ACA/BCU bit, but on the other hand I think here that would be preaching to the choir. But then again maybe all those lurkers who don’t comment regularly are ACA members.
but you’re right, religion and sex always bring out the biggest reactions. 
Camphor wood is native of china and grows in Florida & California. Nice big shade trees, very, very aromatic, used for fancy woodwork. . more than you wanted to know I bet.
Shock horror! - selling the Greenlander??! And after all the grief that Mary gave me when mine went to a good home?? :-)))
Still, the Romany’s a good boat (when you’ve got shorter legs and smaller feet than me - I only had a 2 hr endurance in mine before I HAD to get out (aka lots of pain!))
Camphor wood - got that - it was your alternative US spelling that had me fooled for a moment!! (Or was it the olde english spelling? and ours has changed??? - now there’s another nuclear thread!)
Only 10 months to go - but who’s counting?!
:-))
ok, so i got my days blog done, came back here and read 10 months? Some psycic thing?
If so that’s happened to me twice this week. weird.
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